Jealousy, Pleasing

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  • #12433
    suzanne
    Participant

    Hi Greg
    Jealousy does, in my experience, exist among dogs.

    First, step back to what we are defining as jealousy. For me, I’d lean on these from the Merriam Webster dictionary:

    *hostile toward a rival or one believed to enjoy an advantage* : envious

    *intolerant of rivalry or unfaithfulness*

    *vigilant in guarding a possession* (not a common usage of jealous, at least here in the US) — this could be an object, or — often — guarding a person’s attention, or proximity to a preferred person

    I’ve seen all three definitions fit dog behavior. As with people, there are temperament traits that go hand in hand with “jealousy.” I am on alert wherever anxiety or a lack of confidence or non-productive arousal or poor resilience or fear (or a combo of those) are present.

    In particular, I would be watching for what would trigger a shift in the dog’s demeanor. A weird human analogy might be if there was a jealous husband, was that triggered just because his wife smiled at another man or does he have to find her naked in bed with another guy? What does it take for the dog to display behavior that indicates they are uncomfortable with what’s happening? What are they afraid of losing? Is someone actually trying to take advantage of them?

    Do I think dogs try to please us? Some do. Some don’t. Always good to remember that when we say dogS, that S stands for statistics, and may have nothing to do with an individual dog. So if I ask you, do people try to please us? Which person?? Some do, some don’t. We even have a term for some folks: “people pleaser” and that label indicates that it is not a universal quality!

    Some dogs are biddable, agreeable to trying anything for us just because we ask, and doing the best they can. Others want to know what’s in it for them IF they don’t find the activity intrinsically rewarding. And still others — even if reinforced — may be easily bored or disinterested.

    CARAT captures biddability as a trait that can be observed and scored.

    cheers
    Suzanne

    #12436
    Greg Lagios
    Participant

    Awesome response, thank you!

    #12446
    Greg Lagios
    Participant

    Along these lines, do you think dogs can feel shame, remorse, guilt, and finally anger?

    #12447
    suzanne
    Participant

    Hi Greg
    As with my previous answer, I’d ask about the definitions.

    Without using a shoehorn and WD-40, can you align dog behavior with any definitions of these terms?

    One of the four is workable for me. How about you?

    Looking forward to hearing your take!
    cheers
    Suzanne

    #12449
    Greg Lagios
    Participant

    Hi-
    I think dogs can emote frustration and/or anger. I do not think they emote shame, guilt, or remorse. I could be wrong, thus the request. I come to this conclusion based on observations over time and looking at Merriam, per your suggestion. I knew you were going to ask me what I thought. Sign of a true leader.
    Your thoughts are most welcome?
    Shame:
    1a: a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety
    b: the susceptibility to such emotion
    2: a condition of humiliating disgrace
    3a: something that brings censure or reproach
    Guilt:
    1: the fact of having committed a breach of conduct
    2a: the state of one who has committed an offense, especially consciously
    b: feelings of deserving blame especially for offenses, real or imagined.
    Remorse:
    1. a gnawing distress arising from a sense of guilt for past wrongs
    Anger:
    1: a strong feeling of displeasure and usually of antagonism
    2: a threatening or violent appearance or state

    #12462
    suzanne
    Participant

    Hi Greg
    Of those listed, the one I can make a compelling argument for based on observed behavior would be anger.

    Shame, guilt, remorse – possibly, but those are constructs that I would be hard pressed to pair with observed behavior in a conclusive way. I know many people interpret behavior to fit these constructs, but I’d tread carefully myself.

    See this 2015 study https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4310318/

    Having said that, I do know that in a room of 10 dogs all doing various things, I can say, “Knock it off” or “Don’t!” without using the specific dog’s name, and the only dog who changes what they are doing is the dog who is doing something they know to be not allowed. I’d love to have that replicated for scientists!
    Suzanne

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